Tegan and Ness' beauty counter

Klerr! wrote:Yay Tash! Buying new things is fun.

Also Yay Alex! Was it Beauty Bay? They generally ship pretty fast.

Yep, Beauty Bay   I'm so excited to get it!

Thanks. Also, the packaging says "Online tutorials make you the expert" which made me giggle.

Haha, I never even noticed that!

Claire, you were right! My order was shipped last night!

Just bought a dark purple lipstick and a pastel green lipstick, haha. More Lime Crime!

I bought Maybelline's better skin foundation, and it's really great! Their Fit Me stick foundations are pretty great too, now I have the right shade. Maybelline are becoming my favourite brand right now.

I visited the Estee Lauder counter in Farmers yesterday, got colour matched for Double Wear Light and was given a 7 day sample pot to take home. I'm so excited to try it, have heard great things!

I walked to work this morning and didn't realise until I was here and mid getting ready that I left all of my makeup brushes and sponges at home. Today is brought to you by Fingertips, ladies and gents! With our good friends Powder, Blush, Highlight & Eyeshadow left on their sorry own.

I'm so sad! I found out that MAC/Estee Lauder/Clinique test on animals This means I can't get MAC anymore, or I'd be someone who only has morals until they become inconvenient. Argh! I am however allowing myself to use those products I already have, because they already have my money.

On the bright side, after finding this out I've done a little research, and found that most brands I like are either cruelty-free (eg. Benefit, Nars, Innoxa) or don't test on animals except for when selling in China (eg. Revlon) as up until recently their law stated that cosmetics had to be tested on animals to be approved as safe, and I figure that's okay because the makeup I'm buying hasn't been tested on an animal, and as that law has now been reformed my guess is that they probably won't continue to test products on animals when they've already been tested for the rest of the world in more ethical ways.

Anyway, yesterday I went to buy concealer, ended up getting Benefit Boi ing concealer, Innoxa Loose Mineral Powder, a concealer brush, and a Revlon lip butter.

I think MAC have the same thing, only the products sold in China are tested on animals? And they're tested by a third party agency, not MAC themselves? I know they're owned by Estee Lauder so it could be much of a muchness, but I researched that a lot before finally succumbing to MAC lipstick, and that seemed to be the conclusion. So on the one hand, it's their bad for agreeing to sell product in a country where they know it will be tested on animals before it's sold, but they aren't personally conducting animal testing, and if not for the Chinese law being the way it is, those products would never be tested on animals. And the products in your market that you are buying have not been tested on animals.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but after much, much reading and head-scratching, that seemed to be the case.

Your safest bet in terms of buying cruelty-free is still to go with companies that are strictly cruelty-free, though. I mean, Benefit for example are the same as MAC - they "don't test on animals", but Benefit products are sold in Sephora China which means they are tested on animals somewhere along the line.

I looked up a list a few years ago of safe companies to buy from and MAC was on the list, so if it's changed since then without my knowing, that fucking suuucks! I was so pleased to SEE MAC on the list, and I'm sure I've mentioned it to a couple of people along the way as well. Dang.

It's a bit of a grey area the whole ethical cosmetics. Anyone that sells in China has to test on animals, whether through themselves or third party. Some companies refuse to sell to China because of the animal testing in order to be completely cruelty free, whilst others will say they are cruelty free yet sell in China. So it's a bit confusing and based on what you think is cruelty free because there always is that risk that the products are all still coming from the same factory and some will be tested on people and other tested on animals as part of legal compliance

wombieheartanimal wrote:I looked up a list a few years ago of safe companies to buy from and MAC was on the list, so if it's changed since then without my knowing, that fucking suuucks! I was so pleased to SEE MAC on the list, and I'm sure I've mentioned it to a couple of people along the way as well. Dang.

They used to be, until they were bought out by Estee Lauder, who have always tested on animals. The likes of PETA now advise not to buy MAC (since they started selling in China).

Everything I looked up stated that Mac were on the naughty list. Other brands, like Revlon, it was very clear that they only tested on animals to sell in China, but Estee Lauder Companies didn't have anything like that, that I could find, except on wikipedia. There were also a few articles about how Mac had been misleading about their animal testing policies in the past. There is nothing on their website.

Id love for someone to have a reliable source that states that Mac only test on animals when legally required, because this has me seriously bummed. Ive even considered messaging them and asking, with the hope of getting an answer I like.

Hold up! Stop the tape! I found the Estee Lauder Companies statement on animal testing. They explain that they only test on animals when required by law, then go on to give a long and thorough explanation of what "required by law" entails, why they still sell to China, and how they are working to advocate for non-animal testing.

It took so much more searching than any other company, but actually has much more information.

Yep that's what I found! Took a while, but was good to find something so detailed and informative.

Goes to show I need to be better at checking this stuff! I don't think I've bought makeup in….well, I bought a new eyeliner pencil from The Body Shop last year and before that I think I bought some powder from MAC in 2011 or 2012, and since I am such a makeup n00b it just would never have occurred to me that another company would buy out a brand and then their policies would change, etc. I just don't hear any of that kind of news. I mean, I guess it's irrelevant since I might not have even bought anything from them since the change, depending on whenever Estee Lauder bought them, but I have still recommended them, so it would be good to be more 'in the know'. (Also I was thinking about possibly getting some sort of eyebrow…stuff….pencil…thing??? from them at some stage in the future, so a) it's good to know this but b) now I have no idea where to go, because MAC was just always the "if I have to buy makeup in future I'll just go there" kind of place for me.)

Innoxa are completely cruelty-free, their slogan is even "first do no harm". I've never used their eyebrow pencil, but most of what I have used is really nice. Plus, they're on the cheaper end of the scale.

Also I feel like I have to sneak out of this thread with my tail between my legs now I've revealed that I haven't bought makeup since "maybe 2011 or 2012"

...And I haven't even used the powder more than three or four times! I went in there back whenever it was, all, "I'm going to do this! I'm going to learn makeup! TELL ME ABOUT FOUNDATIONS, DEAR LADY!" Then MAC lady was all, "Oh, you've got such lovely skin, you don't really need foundation. I'd recommend a concealer for any blemishes and then maybe a finishing powder to even it out, if you really feel like you need it." Which sounds like a humble brag…but I was ready! I was gonna girl it up with the best of them - or at least learn how. And I got turned down! And it took all my courage/motivation just to go and ask! And I'm still basically a teenage boy about girl stuff AND IT IS ALL THAT ONE WOMAN'S FAULT. (I mean, it was nice, and I wish my skin was still that good, but seriously. I am 26 years old and don't know how to apply foundation. Or apply basically anything that isn't eyeliner, and maybe blush. And I guess some concealer and powder?)

wombieheartanimal wrote:I am 26 years old and don't know how to apply foundation. Or apply basically anything that isn't eyeliner, and maybe blush. And I guess some concealer and powder?)

You literally know more than Natalie. She's such a girl, loves clothes and hair, and although I knew she never wore much makeup, I only found out yesterday that she didn't even know how to put on concealer or powder.

Also, I found out this week that my sister has one lipstick. This could be used to describe the difference between the two of us, to be honest.

I also have only one lipstick! I know lipstick doesn't last forever and I bought this nice one from MAC in 2011 which is a long time ago, so it's probably gross that I still use it? But I really don't want to think about replacing it because makeup counters give me the hives and I feel like I'm a little girl playacting when I wear/test lipstick. Which I know just means I need to wear it more often and get comfortable with it…but….yup.

wombieheartanimal wrote:And I'm still basically a teenage boy about girl stuff AND IT IS ALL THAT ONE WOMAN'S FAULT. (I mean, it was nice, and I wish my skin was still that good, but seriously. I am 26 years old and don't know how to apply foundation. Or apply basically anything that isn't eyeliner, and maybe blush. And I guess some concealer and powder?)

If you're keen on learning, I'd fully recommend booking in to have your makeup done somewhere where the price of the makeover/lesson is redeemable on product. It usually costs around $90 but that's fully redeemable, so if you're wanting to buy product anyway it works out as a really good way of doing it. Loads of places offer this service without advertising it, you just have to ask. Napoleon Perdis and NARS both do it, and they're cruelty free. Then you can use your newfound skills to go and dominate with some cheaper brands - Elf, Wet N Wild and Jordana for example are all cruelty free, but really cheap and available at places like Kmart or online at iHerb for $3-$12 per product. Elf stuff in particular is really good!

My personal favourites in the strictly-cruelty-free market are Youngblood, Lime Crime, The Balm and NARS. Elf are good for cheaper products and Jordana lippies are great (widely renowned as MAC dupes at a fraction of the price). The Body Shop is good, but they're owned by L'Oreal now who test on animals, so while The Body Shop itself doesn't test on animals, their profits are still going to a bigger entity who do. It's a tricky thing to navigate. If you're dead focused on not giving your money to companies who test on animals though you're better off going to Lush for body stuff.

The Elf brow kit is good too, by the way. And only about $3 or $5 on iHerb. Good option if you're looking for something for your brows I'd recommend buying a different brush though, the one that comes with the kit is crap.

Remember you can buy lippies online too! Might be a good way to easei to it? Buy some cheap Wet N Wild or Jordana lippies in shades you think you'll like, and go from there.

I was going to say "if it doesn't smell, it's probably fine" but then I remembered the anosmic thing...

I don't think makeup is really a life skill, though. If you dont find playing around with makeup fun, you probably dont have much incentive to do it. If you feel more confident without makeup, than with it on, then that's what works for you.

Also, youtube tutorials are the best

Thanks guys! Tash that is all so helpful! I agree Subes, it's not a priority at all if it's not something I want, I guess it just feels strange not to know how to do, like it almost makes me less of a female, which is obviously a ridiculous thing to be thinking especially considering I'm a feminist warrior who would think it was awful if any OTHER lady felt that way. I mean, I don't ever want to get to the point where I'm wearing makeup every day, because I don't want to ever feel bad about myself when I'm *not* wearing makeup - that's really important to me, and why I think I've resisted foundation for the most part. (Sometimes I see female friends in the morning with no makeup if I've crashed at their place, and the difference is often really shocking, even though their foundation looks so flawless and light and natural. I never want my REAL LIFE SKIN FACE to be shocking to anyone.) I do really admire makeup application and so many ladies I know (including lots of ladies on here) totally rock it, and I think I would like to have a few skills in my arsenal for big parties. Maybe I don't need foundation (I can stick with the concealer/powder combo) but I would like to know how to do eyebrows and eyeshadow mainly, I think. (I wore eyeshadow a bit on occasion when I was about 19/20, but I never knew what I was doing and I think it probably looked bad. But hey, that's what being 19 is for I guess?)

And yup, I watched an eyebrow tutorial on youtube a few months ago when I first got curious about eyebrow makeup and it was AWESOME. I actually find makeup tutorials hella relaxing and have watched them every once in a while for a few years whenever I'm stressed, even though I almost never have interest in the actual product. It's like cooking shows! Tell me to do anything in a soothing, confident voice, like you're taking care of me, and give me methodical instructions and I will just be so into it.

Sian a good alternative to foundation is BB/CC cream. I tend to slap that on and put power on top when I'm too lazy for foundation. I still use pencil for eyeliner and many qtips so I can understand wanting to learn make up skills